Vito (00:06):
Hello and welcome to Strategic Alternatives, the RBC Capital Markets Podcast. I'm your host, Vito Sperduto, head of RBC Capital Markets us. Today we have a special bonus episode that is part of our new audio series from RBC Capital Markets, where we highlight the work of our community partners. As many of you know, RBCs stated Collective ambition is helping clients thrive in communities prosper many times on strategic alternatives. We highlight the advice that we're providing to our clients to assist them in their daily work. This series will focus on the ideas and initiatives that are powering our mission to help communities around the world prosper. I'm pretty excited today because I'm joined by Wil Snape-Rogers and Danielle Hundt from Play Rugby a long-term RBC non-profit partner. Wil's the executive director, and Danielle is the Chief Program Officer at Play Rugby. Wil and Danielle, welcome to the podcast.
Wil (01:01):
Thank you, Vito. Great to be here.
Danielle (01:03):
Thanks, Vito.
Vito (01:04):
So, in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, we're discussing how play Rugby uses the power of sport to help young people flourish both mentally and physically on the field and off the field. This program for me is, is very near and dear to my heart. I've been a member of the Board of Play Rugby since 2016 and chair of the board since 2020. In fact this coming month in June will be the 10th annual Charity day for the kids here at RBC. And I originally was introduced to play Rugby and Mark Griffin, the founder, who was the executive director at the time in June of 2015 when he was giving a motivational talk to our trading floor on the, on the occasion of our charity day for the kids. And just for background, this is our annual celebration where we celebrate the culture of philanthropy and commitment to making a positive and measurable impact in the communities in which we live and work This year, the RBC Charity Day for the Kids is going to be 10, as I just mentioned, and we're excited to celebrate it with our colleagues, clients, and charity partners.
Vito (02:09):
And it's been an impressive effort. This has been over $30 million of donations to over 130 Youth-focused causes globally since we initiated the program. This year I think we have over 70 different causes that are going to be receiving donations from the day. And, you know, and play Rugby specifically has been a regular recipient of support from the RBC Foundation. The team has been actively working to engage with our employees in various events with many of our young people and in terms of participation and has been a recipient of donations through our Race for the Kids efforts in the past. So true partner throughout the over 10 years that we've been together. So, pretty excited for the conversation. So let's dive in. I'm really excited to get to Wil and Danielle and maybe let Wil, let's start with you and maybe give us a little background in terms of your involvement with Play Rugby and, and some of the work you're doing. And by the way, Wil was a professional rugby player back in the past, so maybe he can highlight some of that.
Wil (03:18):
I don't, I don't want to take too much time talking about my short-lived career as a professional rugby player veto, but thanks for, thanks for pointing it out. Yeah, Thank you Veto. So yeah, so my personal involvement with Play Rugby really started when I first came to, to the US in 2011. And when I got here in 2011, I didn't actually, I didn't know anyone, so I put up the back beacon of rugby and ended up coaching a youth program which worked with young people from underserved communities. And then in 2018 Mark Griffin, the founder of Play Rugby, was moving away. So he, he'd been running the organization for over 15 years had done a fantastic job in establishing play Rugby's roots both in the, in New York and across the country. And so it was a, it was an absolute pleasure for me and a kind of a dream come true to be able to combine like the business work that I'm doing with this real belief in rugby for youth development
Vito (04:14):
That it's great. And we'll, we'll get into a little bit in terms of some of the values and action of the program and how they apply on the field, off the field and overall in life which is an amazing way to think about it. So Danielle, maybe give us some of your background. I know you've worn a lot of hats and, you know, currently the chief Program officer, but maybe give us some background. I think you've, you've also played a little rugby yourself, I think.
Danielle (04:39):
Yes. I was not a professional rugby player, but I did I was first introduced to the game as a freshman up at Mars College as a club sport. I had played sports my whole life, but kind of showed up at college without a team to play on and was welcomed into rugby with open arms. It's an amazing community and I absolutely fell in love with the game, so much so that I started coaching immediately upon graduation. So I started on as a volunteer coach while beginning my career in nonprofit work. So my very first job out of college was at a nonprofit organization doing community relations and fundraising work. And I think, you know, when I started coaching was when I really started to understand the impact, not only of the game itself, but the impact that a really good coach can have on a young person. And I really started coaching with the youth development lens without even realizing it by emphasizing, you know, effort and prioritizing individual success and, and skill mastery over winning. And, you know, when the, A position opened up at Play Rugby in 2017 I jumped at the chance to merge my two passions at the time, which was rugby and nonprofit work. And being able to bring the sport that I loved TM people in New York City who otherwise wouldn't have access to, it was absolutely a dream come true.
Vito (06:06):
It's, it's pretty interesting. I mean, you joined in 2017 Wil joined in 2019. I became board chair in January of 2020, and I know the three of us had a lot of long conversations as we headed into the, the pandemic at the beginning of 2020 and sort of the implications that it had on the program to be honest, you know, some of the more adverse impact that was having on the students in our population. Talk to us a little bit about how the program evolved and, and as we're talking about mental health awareness right now just the importance of that, especially when we, in the first half of 2020 when some of those conversations we were having was all around that topic.
Wil (06:50):
Yeah, absolutely. And to, to give some background context. I mean, at that point, play Rugby was a, you know, a 15-year-old sports space youth development organization that had worked primarily in the, in the public and the charter school system across the country. We introduced over 20,000 young people to the sport and the, and the positive aspects of it. But then we had this pandemic, we had this systemic event. And I think Vito, this was a point at which, and you just mentioned when you came on board, when Danielle's role shifted, this was a philosophical shift that I believe we were all aligned in which was making sure that every young person that we inter interact with or have an impact on, we have a deep impact. We are, we, we provide them with tools and resources to reach their potential, whatever that may be.
Wil (07:42):
And I think, you know, at a time when isolation was a real issue like education being out of school was an issue. We gave the, the young people in our program a reason to come together. We gave them a reason to of joy to play a sport that they have loved, they're running around. And I think during that time, we really saw that impact of both the connection with peers, the connection of the coach on mental health. The thing we are proudest of is the fact that a hundred percent of the students in our program graduate high school on time and matriculate to either college or the workforce. So I think, to answer your question more succinctly than I have the difference between the pandemic said, okay, we need to focus ourselves on these communities, the Bronx and Harlem, and RBC has been a huge supporter of that. And now how do we provide these, these pathways to the potential of the, of the students in our program? And as you say, we're seeing some fantastic results because of that.
Vito (08:39):
Yeah. The, the, the results speak for themselves. They're always amazing. Every time I, we, we go through them, and it always sparks a significant interest on anybody's part that, that listens to it and sees it. Especially what I'm, what I'm always taken aback by, and it's, it's an incredibly proud feeling, is when you hear the kids talk about what they get out of the the program, and as we've talked about, you realize that we're not teaching them something new, like they all have it in them. We're just providing them the means to bring that out and, and providing them an opportunity to, to grow in that regard. So it, it's, it's been wonderful to watch. I mean, Danielle, as you think about the programming and, and sort of the approach to helping the youth that we serve how has that evolved in recent years, especially as we've been trying to think about the, the whole child and not just simply the, the on the field and, and those pieces of it. And, and maybe a little bit of the, what's always helpful is the reaction of the kids and the reaction of their parents as well, like that, that we've heard, which have been really incredible.
Danielle (09:48):
Yeah. Well you know, one thing that always, when I hear anybody talk about player review's impact during covid and just like listening to, well just now, one comment that always strikes me, there was a young person in our program named Casey, and we were at McComb Stand Park. We in Mass, and we were doing socially distance programming and temperature checks and all the, all that, that sort of came with it to keep everyone safe. And we're just having a chat with her on the sideline about, you know, how she was feeling kind of coming out and she said, this gives me a reason to get out of bed. And that was just one of those, like, really just one of the statements that stuck with me. It was, it was a hard time at play rugby too, like trying to meet the needs of the, of the young people that we served and feeling a little bit stuck.
Danielle (10:36):
Like we weren't, we couldn't do what we kind of wanted. And knowing that we were still having that, that really deep impact and giving kids something that they needed was, was so meaningful. But I think in terms of, you know, where we've gone since then, we need to echo what Wil said, you know, we really are focusing and, and shifting on, you know, kind of what we call direct service. So, so what does that mean in the programming world? It's, you know, play rugby coaches who we call youth development mentors delivering the bulk of our programming. So all of those staff are trained pretty intensely by us. And, you know, at the core of everything we do is that vital connection. So that connection between a young person and a trusted adult particularly one that is outside of their family unit is one of the greatest indicators of future thriving.
Danielle (11:30):
Right? And so we'll talked a little bit about social emotional learning, right? And that's where, you know, we look at rugby as the tool and the hook to teach the young people in our program the skills that they need to be successful, you know, at home, at school, in the community in their future jobs. And that's looking at you know, skills such as confidence teamwork you know, academic attainment, the belief in oneself to achieve. That's a, that's a skill, that's a thing you can improve upon and grow on. And so everything that we do on field is really driving towards that and making sure that our youth development mentors always keep that at the core of their work.
Vito (12:11):
You know, when I look at our values, I, I always think about the, there's a number of them, but one of them that always sticks out to me is go forward. And in the context that we talk about it, it's always a, you know, for the, for the students is I believe in myself and my ability to grow and learn, right? And, and instilling that belief in, in one of the students is it, it's just an incredible thing when you see it stand out. You talked a little bit about some of the programs. Well, let's talk a little bit about the coaches and the youth development mentors. Like what services are we providing for them to assist them in being able to deliver this type of support to the students?
Wil (12:54):
The support that we give our coaches and youth develop mentors, as Daniel said, is a pretty in intensive training. So first of all, like everyone that comes onto the team goes through training around positive youth development. We have external partners that, that support some of that training as well. As well as we have continual internal trainings. And, and, and it's really important for us as well to be culturally responsive to the needs of our students. So we have a lot of feedback loops, okay. So that we can be responsive to what the students need and apply training and resources that, that are appropriate to them.
Danielle (13:34):
Vito, I'll just add to that. I think what sets play rugby be apart, and I had some experience working primarily as a volunteer in other sports base suits, velvet organizations before I came to play rugby. So sort of had an idea of, of what programming and curriculum could look like. And so we have, you know, what we call our methodology. And so we have you know, our culture, our connections, and our curriculum and some sort of standards around those things, right? We have our values, which is our shared language. We have rituals and routines that are rooted in neuroscience to kind of level set to get kids who have gone through trauma, who have had a difficult day kind of settled and engaged in our program. And so we use all of those things and those are kind of our guideposts. But I think what sets Player B apart is, it's not a book that gets handed to a coach and we say, read this, do these lessons, right? Execute this on week one and then this other thing on week three. And that's the response. And if the responsiveness that Wil's talking about is getting coaches the freedom and the flexibility to respond to the, the needs of the young people in their program.
Vito (14:50):
Yeah. Look, and I think as we've all talked about, I think a lot of this, especially regarding mental health a lot of it revolves around removing the stigma of even talking about it and making sure that it's something that they feel comfortable with.
Vito (15:06):
I mean, I recall in Wil and, and Danielle in mid-2020, we let the students take over our social feeds to express themselves on social media and basically have an outlet to discuss what was on their minds with regards to some of the events that were going on nationally. And, and I think items like that, the ability to talk openly and, and especially allowing it to be not such a, there isn't a one size fits all approach to this, right? And, you know, look, I I, I watch it a lot with our coaches and, you know, they just have an incredible touch and passion and empathy for the students.
Vito (15:47):
And including, like, we saw it a few weeks ago at our annual gala when we outed one of our students. And as they talked about the impact that our coach had, you know, the, the emotional response from our coach was incredible because you saw sort of the, you know, he understood the impact he had had on this child's life, and, and you saw the reflection of that and how much he cared about it, which was great.
Vito (16:11):
So maybe let's get into a little bit more in terms of how, how do, what are some other things we're doing to remove that stigma to assist system in talking about it? Because again, it's, it's difficult to talk about in any circumstance. And, and maybe especially the, you know, some of the neighborhoods and backgrounds that our students come from. It's even more so in terms of being a topic that's readily talked about.
Danielle (16:40):
So I think the, the first thing that, that we do at play rugby, this is sort of like the first thing that we train on, and the first thing that we look at all of our programs is the creation of a safe space. All of the kind of things that we're doing is working towards creating a safe space on the field where the young people in our program can bring everything that they're experiencing with them. So this isn't a check your emotions at the door, check your day at the door, check your life at the door. We're focused on rugby. We encourage the young people in our program to bring their whole selves with STEM every day and create a space where that's accepted. You know, I think this stigma, and we hear this a lot from our coaches around black and brown communities, and mental health is not to seek help, not to seek support, not to talk about it openly.
Danielle (17:36):
And so it's something that we're always driving towards and, you know, letting the young people understand. And, and one of the social emotional learning capacities that we drive towards is, is self-management, right? That self-regulation piece of I'm experiencing a feeling or an emotion, and do I have the skills to work through that and express it? And so that's something that we're always driving towards, and we constantly hear the coaches talking about your feelings are valid and they're real, and what you're experiencing is valid and real, and there are multiple ways you can express that. And let's help support you towards expressing that in a way that is healthy for you and not keeping it inside. I think that's the biggest thing.
Wil (18:25):
And, you know, you talked about at, at our fundraising event a couple weeks ago, so our head voice coach Yogi also on experiencing a lot of emotion on stage.
Danielle (18:35):
And one of the things that he said to me at the end of last season that was so meaningful for him was that at the end of the season, his team got very emotional and there was a lot of tears that were shed. And he said, that meant the most to me, because when I grew up, it was not okay to cry, right?
Danielle (18:57):
That was not an, that was not an acceptable form of expression. And so being able to say to these young men that that's acceptable, if that is how you choose to express yourself, I think that that's been really powerful. And so, yeah, everything we do is creating that safe space and checking in. We do that really intentionally. And then we do that really sort of informally to make sure that everybody knows it's okay to bring their life with them on the field. And that what you're feeling is real,
Vito (19:32):
That is pre really well said. And I, and I think when we talk about the, on the field, you know, we always talk about the fact that we don't measure the success of the program about just purely the on field performance, but at the same time, we have an incredibly competitive team and that, that prides themself on doing well on the field. And certainly, you know, all three of us know this, like even in our own lives, the times when you're feeling physically better where you're, you're finding ways to engage from a physical perspective, it, it does correlate to stronger mental health. Because It all is related. And so maybe will, you know, give us some thoughts on how physical health and activity can positively impact especially our students' mental state as they participate in the program.
Wil (20:26):
Although I also want to just riff off something you were both talking about there and the importance of agency. So the big thing around social, the social emotional learning element of our program is that the, I can of this, so you talked about go forward, Vito, well, go forward means like it's resilience building, it's overcoming obstacles in front of you, and why is rugby the best tool for youth development? Because when you're on field, you are going to have to carry the ball, you are going to make a tackle, and in those moments you will learn about yourself. And the ability to get up and do those things again, I think is really where you learn about yourself. And, you know, I think competition and, and games are re a really important element of what we do because you only understand when you're put under pressure if you've kind of changed, right?
Wil (21:17):
You, it's, it's the learning from our mistakes, but also when we're put under pressure reverting to type, have we improved that type? And I think it's so important around our values program because it creates agency. So go forward, play what you see, play what you see means there's, there's action happening in front of me and I can actively make decisions and I have agency in these decision making. So I think that, you know, those kind of the, the repetitive, the intentionality around the language that we use is how we get to outcomes. Now. How does that relate to how does physical exercise impact mental health?
Wil (21:56):
I think we all know when we're, when we do any kind of exercise, the endorphin if that we get from that. So I think there's a direct correlation between mental health, feeling good about oneself and physical activity. But I would say particularly in team sports, that is also about your peers, the community the connection you have around you and that support, it's hard to feel alone when you're in a team. And I think that that, that also is a really important part of our program. The fact that, you know, loneliness as it affects mental health when you have a team around you, your peers supporting you, your coach supporting you, when you know you have a support network that emboldens you and has a direct impact on your mental health.
Vito (22:39):
Yeah. Okay. I think that's, that's incredibly well said. And maybe let's pivot a little bit. I think we've all talked we've all mentioned some of the values and action of the program I talked about go forward. You just mentioned play what you see. When I first heard about the program and heard how it was being used for youth development, it was a natural, like the light bulb went boom. I, I, oh, I get it. Like, I understand how that translates, right? Which is a great one. And what, and again, these kids that they don't know rugby going into it, but once they learn the skills on the field, it, it so easily translates to everything off the field. So we've talked about the outcomes of the program, we've talked about a number of items here. Maybe as we're wrapping up for the audience here let's, let's talk a little bit about just any key takeaways that you want to leave the listeners with, especially in regards to the development and the mental health positives you've seen with our students.
Vito (23:47):
Some of the things that maybe we haven't talked about that you've seen that's really impacted them. And, and when I think about that I, I often think about the times that I've spoken to some of the students, how easily they talk about the values and the principles, but also the qualities of leadership that come through. I mean, it's like so natural, right? And, and I still reflect on we had the captain of the academy team who came into RBC back in 2016, and she was exceptional and, and she as a she was about to go into her junior year in high school and led a conversation with a number of adults in the room where she, one by one picked on her teammates to talk about specific items that they were doing on the field, specific values and highlighting them.
Vito (24:47):
And I sat back afterwards and I was like, my gosh, you just did something that I wish I had more people that work for me could do. Because there's, there was a level of leadership there now, it was natural. She went on to matriculate to West Point and, you know, play exceptionally and, you know, is a, a leader in our country at this point. So but it, it's amazing to see that quality brought out in someone who has it in them, and it's just a matter of giving them the opportunity. But we'd love your perspectives on, you know, any sort of final takeaways you'd like to leave with the listeners.
Danielle (25:24):
Well, I think to just continue on that, it's that exactly what you just said, that the potential is inside each and every person, right? Each and every person, end of sentence. So when we look at the young people that we serve the kids that grow up right now in the Bronx, in Harlem society is squashing that, right? The systemic challenges that they're facing are getting in the way of that potential coming out. And so that is all we're trying to do is create an environment where they can shine and where they can thrive. You know, I think young people are facing levels of anxiety and depression, you know, at a rate that we haven't seen at least as long as I've been on this earth, right? There is no sort of denying that. And sports has been proven time and time again to combat that.
Danielle (26:28):
But, you know, particularly sports with a focus on youth development where it's not a win at all cost mentality, where we're focusing on the development of each individual young person. A, a program like play rugby, you know, the kids at our program, their mental health is just better, right? So not only are they off their screens and they have teammates and they have people that care about them, they're also being put in an environment and consistently where they're given the space and the freedom to express themselves, to achieve, to fail, to try again and again. And ultimately, you know, that that's what's translatable.
Danielle (27:10):
You talk about, you know, everybody wants an employee like that, right? This, this, if, if you have this staff, if you have a young staff you know that the way things have been done aren't going to work anymore. And so that individual responsiveness and giving young people the, the freedom and the space to thrive and working more individually, it's the key to success both on and off the field. You
Vito (27:39):
Know, I'll add a little anecdote. I, I have found that again, we've talked a lot about the students and just how amazing they are to speak to and, and, and learn from. When I think about my involvement in play rugby, my involvement as a mentor in other programs, I, always talk about the fact that the learning I get as someone who participates from a more senior level is like invaluable. And it probably you know, I get greater learning from it from versus what I'm able to contribute to it. And it, it always adds to what I'm doing. So, really excited about the work we're doing here. I hope for our audience that, that you get the, the passion here and would love to, if anybody is interested in learning more about the program, I would love to talk to you directly about it. And you can reach out to us here at RBC. You can also find the program online at playrugbyusa.org. And we'll put that in, in the notes. But Will Danielle, really appreciate the conversation today. You know, this is, again, something that I know is near and dear for the three of us and, and, and an easy one. So hope, thank you so much for the, the detail. But thanks again for joining us.
Vito (29:10):
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