Vito Sperduto
Hello and welcome to Strategic Alternatives, the RBC Capital Markets podcast, where we uncover new ways to raise capital, drive growth and create value in an ever changing world. I'm Vito Sperduto, Head of RBC Capital Markets U.S. and joining me today are John Cokinos, our Global Head of Leveraged Finance and Capital Markets. John has been at the forefront of some of the biggest and most complex leveraged buyouts in recent years. John, welcome to the podcast.
John Cokinos
Thank you. Vito, good to be back with you.
Vito Sperduto
We also have Nitin Babar, our Global Head of Equity Capital Markets.
Nitin Babbar
Great to be here as always. Thank you, Vito.
Vito Sperduto
And last but not least, we have Rob McCormack, our Global Head of Debt Capital Markets. Rob has been instrumental in guiding clients through volatile rate environments with strategic issuance decisions. Rob, welcome to the podcast.
Rob McCormack
Thanks, Vito, great to be back with you.
Vito Sperduto
So gentlemen, 2025 is shaping up to be a pivotal year for capital markets, with interest rate expectations shifting, policy changes coming into focus, and geopolitical risks continuing to evolve. Investors and issuers alike are navigating a more complex environment, one where capital raising strategies are becoming more dynamic and opportunistic. While we've seen strong deal activity, the dynamics driving issuance and financing strategies are shifting. Market windows are opening and closing quickly, sponsors are adapting to a more constrained M&A environment, and capital providers are recalibrating where and how they deploy funds. From cross border opportunities to the evolving role of private credit. The landscape is far from static. Given this backdrop, today we'll break down with striving capital markets activity across leveraged finance, debt and equity, and what it all means for issuers looking to raise capital. So let's get into it. Why don't we start by talking about the macro picture and how it's impacting market activity. So over the past year, we've seen sharp swings in investor sentiment, often driven by economic data releases, Fed commentary or geopolitical developments. This kind of volatility creates both risks and opportunities for our issuers, forcing them to be more tactical about timing their deals. In your respective markets, how are issuers and investors adapting? So why don't we start with you, John Cokinos.
John Cokinos
That's a great question, Vito. I think over the last six months, we've seen a bit of a change in the sentiment overall for dealmaking. I think coming into the fall, there was a lot of activity in the private equity community, both public to privates as well as sponsor to sponsor transactions. And a lot of transactions were completed before the holidays coming into the new year. I think the euphoria that we started off the year to your point, around the tempo of activity, has abated a bit, and now investors as well as sponsors are trying to understand the situations where they'll be less susceptible to some of the day to day comments that we see in the media. So the focus has really been around how to immunize yourself from some of those day to day headlines and looking more at, you know, whether they'll be U.S. centric industries, technology sectors that are a little more immune, as well as energy being a little more immune in the sense that it's a US-centric business. So we have definitely seen that focus in terms of the activity levels we're witnessing right now. Those are the real industries where there's been a focus. We've also seen an opportunistic market in the new year around refinancing and refinancing transactions to take advantage of the window we're in, in case there's any more volatility coming down the pike throughout the year. So the loan market just surpassed the loan activity that we saw in this period of last year in ‘24 but the high yield markets about 30% behind because of all the pull through that we saw in ‘24 ahead of ’25.
Vito Sperduto
Hey, Rob. How about in the Debt Capital Markets, we've seen some investment grade issuers take advantage of stability pockets. Do you see this trend continuing in ‘25 or is issuance becoming more sporadic?
Robert McCormack
Yeah. I mean, it's a great question, Vito. There's no doubt it's a challenging environment, and navigating the noise requires clients to be more tactical for sure. In the US, we've seen credit spreads, surprisingly, they've been anchored at almost 20 year tights. And volumes year to date, in 2025 are running at around 370 billion, which is only three and a half percent below where we were this time last year. And if you think last year was really a record year, excluding 2020 which saw a spike in issuance due to COVID, we're at 40% above the 2021, to 2023 average at the moment. So volumes of are extremely high, and frankly, it's been somewhat surprising. So we think approaching markets, particularly coming into the second quarter of the year, is going to be a little more challenging and require more tactical approach, particularly when you're thinking about global markets and looking at opportunities across different markets, and the requirement to really be nimble in order to access those opportunities as they pop up.
Vito Sperduto
Hey Nitin, Just on the equity side, we've seen an uptick in follow-ons and block trades, but IPOs still seem largely event driven. You know, what's the key hurdle for the IPO market to gain more momentum and therefore drive the equity markets?
Nitin Babbar
Yeah, thanks, Vito, it's a discussion we have here every day. The volatility in markets, has put a bit of a pause on the IPO market, but there is a strong push-pull, and the demand profile for investors is quite strong. It really has been more about issuers trying to navigate some of the volatility that we've seen in markets. Our expectation is, as always, markets will look through volatility, and there will be an opportunity for many of these issuers to put their filings up and monitor markets for the right window that allows them to come to market. So we're very constructive on the demand profile of investors here for new IPOs. We just want to get more volume out there, and I think as volatility subsides, we will see more of that. So far in 2025 we've only seen 15 IPOs, which is light, but the volatility does explain that. I think our prediction was that there was going to be a resurgence early in the year, but obvious global events and economic events have impacted that. So once again, we think that issuers will look to the IPO market. The stock market has been quite robust, generally speaking, and able to digest this volatility. We just need some greater certainty, and we think that people will put their IPOs on file, watch for the right environment, and get to market.
Vito Sperduto
Maybe let's shift to some of the political changes and their impact on capital raising. With President Trump returning to office, we've seen a mix of optimism and caution in the markets. Back in 2017 during Trump 1.0 we saw deregulation and tax reform fuel a wave of dealmaking, and although it really didn't kick into gear until 2018 in terms of announced transactions, it was starting to gain steam during the year. Now today, despite similar enthusiasms, companies seem to be approaching things more carefully. In terms of your markets. Are you seeing a shift in how issuers think about debt versus equity financing in this environment, and how are sponsors and corporates weighing their capital structure decisions? Maybe let's go back to the well with John Cokinos to kick it off.
John Cokinos
That's a great question. Vito, I think we're in a bit of a transition in thinking about the mix of debt and equity. We're still seeing plenty of portfolio companies that are just looking to do debt fueled acquisitions for growth, as interest rates have declined, and the cost of capital has become more affordable. But if we play this out, and we do see a slowdown in the economy, that's definitely going to put pressure on balance sheets and cash flow that will limit the ability to use debt exclusively for both on or tack on acquisitions. When looking at new transactions and new LBOs, we're still at the same leverage levels that we have been for the last 12 to 18 months. And in fact, we did see a little bit of a tick up last fall, as rates started to come down. And as we've seen the short end and the medium end of the curve have rallied, meaning yields have come down over the last three, three or four business days. So we need to really sort out where interest rates are going and what that means from an economic and growth perspective. But we're certainly going to have more conversations about that mix as the world certainly is looking at a little bit of a different lens now.
Vito Sperduto
Hey, Rob, let's take a look at the IG market. I mean, investment grade issuers are typically more strategic in their debt issuance. How are your clients approaching refinancing, M&A financing and liability management in this environment?
Robert McCormack
Yeah, we're absolutely are having a record year in terms of our liability management business on the new issue front last week we did 24 deals. What we're seeing actually across these markets is an increase in hybrid capital issuance, the sort of longer dated 30 non-call 10 structure. We did a transaction for a reinsurance group last week with this structure, and they priced 700 million but had a peak order book of $5 billion in the US. So the appetite for hybrid capital is certainly there and the capacity for clients to issue with this structure is certainly there. So we're seeing a lot more bespoke structures as people look to access what has been really buoyant issuance conditions.
Vito Sperduto
And Nitin, in the equity space, are you still seeing companies hesitant to tap the markets, or is there a growing confidence in raising growth capital? Or do we need an event like an M&A transaction to really spur an equity raise?
Nitin Babbar
Well, the good news Vito is that we're seeing a little bit of all of that. We're absolutely seeing M&A as a catalyst for equity issuance. And companies take comfort that when they seek to do either transformative or tuck in M&A, that the market is there to support them. The evidence around transactions in the equity markets in support of M&A has been very strong. Investors show up, they look for the accretion, they want to fund that growth that the company wants to pursue. So that's been a very strong part of the market. It has been lumpier, though. And we've seen this not happen quite as frequently. But when it happens, it happens in big scale transactions. Interestingly, the biggest dynamic in the IPO market is that it has evolved from being a funding or financing transaction to more of a liquidity transaction. So one of the outputs of companies is that they're staying private longer, getting bigger in the private markets and then coming to the market as profitable private companies, which tends to focus more on liquidity rather than funding needs for those companies. So the maturity of these companies in the private markets, and the scale of the private markets and support of these companies is something that's going to be here to stay.
Vito Sperduto
Well, why don't we shift to the global perspective? Capital is more mobile than ever, and we've seen investors looking across borders for returns. RBC has supported more cross border business and in ‘24 than it did in ‘23 and clients are increasingly exploring financing options outside their home markets. Do you anticipate more companies turning to offshore capital, or more investors seeking foreign opportunities in ’25. And maybe Rob we'll start with you, have you seen rate differentials play a role in global bond issuance? I mean, are you seeing more companies looking to tap international markets for funding?
Robert McCormack
Yeah, we absolutely are at this point, Vito. Year to date, we've seen a 20% increase in volumes that we've underwritten in offshore markets, and it's certainly been a strategy for us. We've invested heavily in our European business. We've made some additions in Frankfurt and Paris and our offices there, and we're starting to see the benefit of that. We think that companies are thinking about diversification of funding sources, absolutely, as the rates differential across those countries plays out further. And we think that, frankly, it makes a lot of sense when you're thinking about your capital structure to consider a global approach. Again, I think this plays into the conversation earlier around companies being more tactical when they're thinking about ordinary course refinancings, or more strategically, when it comes to acquisition finance. And certainly, what we've seen is an increase in U.S. companies issuing in the Euro market, for example. The liquidity and the added diversification are just some of the benefits of accessing that market. So we expect that trend to continue. And particularly as the M&A story plays out, as we all anticipate it will as the year progresses.
Vito Sperduto
As you think about sort of cross border IPOs and secondary listings as a growing theme, how much demand are you seeing from international investors for U.S. and European equities?
Nitin Babbar
This is a great and very topical question. The U.S. has the biggest gravitational pull of any capital market in the world, and as we think about the liquidity parameters, the activity in all the markets that we operate in, there is a very strong interest in being relevant to U.S. investors. So, the cross listing question is a great one, because for the most part, our advice to companies, if they have the right scale, if they're investable in terms of liquidity, is to absolutely consider the U.S. as a secondary listing, or in some cases, perhaps as a primary listing. The considerations, of course, are some of the regulatory burden that the SEC imposes upon them. There has been, actually, quite recently, a movement by the S&P to consider index inclusion and how they should think about that for dual-listed companies. And the proposal on the table is one that perhaps is quite constructive, that allows companies to be relevant, both in the U.S. and in their home country. So as we think about listings. And the interest in U.S. listings, I think, is very high. It's just a question of finding the right companies that are relevant.
Vito Sperduto
John Cokinos, I know our sponsor clients have always searched out the best financing terms, regardless of product, regardless of borders. What are you seeing in terms of cross border leverage, finance deals and how sponsors are positioning themselves?
John Cokinos
Well, the last 12 to 18 months has been very busy in terms of cross border activity, and we've been at the forefront of several transactions. You know, we worked on a French P to P for CDNR where they took exclusive networks private. That was euros in dollars. We worked on a transaction for Trader Canada that was bought by Scout 24 by H&F, where they raised dollars, euros and Canadian dollars. So coming into the fall, we saw a lot of that, and that was really seeking the currency to offset your natural expenses and hedge in a way that was a little more affordable than using the hedging products. As we look at this year, we obviously have a different rate environment, different costs of capital, and different issues around borders, but I do think that we have seen our sponsor clients continue to be global, look at global transactions, and want to be able to, you know, raise dollars, euros, sterling, etc., to be able to optimize their cost structures, but also buy the best companies available, especially when they can get value for what they're trying to put to work in terms of their equity dollars.
Vito Sperduto
Look, as we think about all this, and really, especially in a higher rate environment, that requires us to be creative as we approach different financing solutions. You know, it's making traditional deals more expensive. We've seen an evolution in how corporates and sponsors approach capital structure decisions. Sponsors are increasingly relying on private credit, structured deals and alternative financing solutions. Maybe, let's talk a little bit about what creative financing or structuring approaches are emerging to sustain deal flow. And maybe John Cokinos, why don't we start off with you? And you know, as we think about sponsors relying more on private credit, is private credit a permanent shift in how LBOs are being financed?
John Cokinos
Well, private credit certainly a permanent asset class, and I think it has a few flavors. I think it has taken the role of traditional middle market lending for smaller companies that need more patient capital versus a liquid, traded marketplace. You know, we have seen private credit finance the 2030, $50 million EBITDA businesses, but conversely, then the broadly syndicated markets refinance those deals as they graduate. Secondly, and fundamentally, the financial sponsor community is driven by cost of capital, and when there's a cost advantage to one product or the other, whether it's when the liquid markets are a little more complacent and not accessible, they'll use private credit, because they'll get terms that they're comfortable with from an underwriting perspective. But when the markets are liquid, like they have been for the past 12 to 18 months, it's about cost of capital and where they can get the best terms and drive the best IRR for the business. So I do think it's part of our ecosystem is going to be around deals that have a little bit more of a challenge to them, or have higher leverage then is allowed under leveraged lending standards, or for middle market transactions, but I do think they will ebb and flow between the two markets, private credit and broadly syndicated depending on cost of capital and the health of those corresponding markets.
Vito Sperduto
And Rob in your marketplace. I mean, maybe tell us a little bit about some of the BDC issuance trends. I mean, I know it's up significantly this year. I mean, is that a reflection of companies staying private longer and turning to these alternative funding sources?
Robert McCormack
The business development companies have been extremely active already this year, as have the insurance companies, and they're probably two of the sectors that have really increased supply so far in 2025. But across the board, it's fair to say that issuance has been increased and elevated across all of the sectors that we cover. I think the BDC increase is really down to a number of factors. I think one is just the increase in capital requirements from that sector and then the increase in the actual number of BDCs that are coming to market overall, and the creation of new BDC. So we're seeing a significant spike in and this all comes back to the private capital discussion that we're having earlier.
Vito Sperduto
In the equity markets, what are you seeing in terms of the role that secondary sales and block trades and sponsor backed IPOs are playing and providing liquidity?
Nitin Babbar
The strength of the block market is critical, not only to those particular transactions, but to the IPO market itself. In assessing the viability and the attractiveness of an IPO, most sponsors, owners of businesses, want to understand what their path is to broader liquidity post IPO, and so a well-functioning block market is critical to that discussion. We have built a very strong business around that and something that we are highly focused on. The key here is to be creative. And many of these blocks do happen in the in the appropriate and attractive windows, but we, once again, as a theme has been in my conversation with you here today, buyers in the market have been very, very focused on blocks. The ECM activity that comes out of desks and provides that liquidity and so we've got a robust demand curve. I think what everybody has to keep in mind is that markets want this to be a win-win. And so buyers on blocks want to see the stock continue up and to the right. Sellers of blocks want the same thing to happen and do responsible size transactions and in the in the right and appropriate windows with the right information set in the public market’s minds
Vito Sperduto
Maybe let's, let's shift and talk a bit about how investors are changing their behavior, and with capital sitting on the sidelines, investors are being more selective in where and how they deploy funds. Some are favoring specific financing structures, while others are waiting for more conviction. Who are some of the key buyers in your market right now? And how is that behavior shifting? And maybe John Cokinos in the leverage finance market. I mean, we've always talked about the CLOs and the retail investors who seem to be active, but where are you seeing the strong demand these days?
John Cokinos
Yeah, the loan market and the bond market are a little different terms of their makeup. So starting with the loan market, which is 85% plus, driven by CLOs, although we have seen an increase in loan mutual funds over the last six months, the CLO bid has been quite strong for the last 18 months. Last year was a record in terms of CLO new issue activity that was driven by two factors. One, the economy did not go into a recession. So default rates did not pick up. And the short rate part of the rate schedule, has remained, around four, four and a quarter percent. So when you take that, plus a coupon of three to 4% that's a good senior secured relative return to make. So we've seen the CLO market and as well as the low mutual fund side of things, have inflows because of that return perspective, as well as avoiding a recession. On the high yield side of things, with the Treasury market volatility, we have seen more volatility in terms of mutual fund flows into that marketplace. Coming into the year, we had six to seven weeks of pretty solid inflows, plus coupon payments for high yield, with an expectation that new issue activity would pick up. But it really hasn't come to fruition in 2025 as a lot of the refinancing activity and lack of M&A activity hasn't produced a need for that marketplace to have a lot of primer new issuance. But the dynamics of both those markets are driven by different factors. Loan investors are comforted that we did survive the Fed rate hike rate cycle and not have a recession, and also that CLO activity and liabilities have become more attractive. On the high yield side of things will be driven more by the volatility, both in debt as well as in the equity markets, as we go into 2025.
Vito Sperduto
And maybe Rob, let's take a look at your marketplace. I mean in investment grade and high yield, is investor sentiment favoring one product versus another?
Robert McCormack
It's probably more a factor of supply, Vito. In 2025 there is ample opportunity for investors to deploy capital, and we've seen real money come in very aggressively when we launch transactions for well known, high quality names. But interestingly, we're actually seeing hedge funds and fast money come into these deals and provide a different proposal. And historically, you know, hedge funds coming into an investment grade deal may, may look to move out of that position relatively quickly, but the tone is shifting, and there is a lot more buy and hold sentiment that we're seeing from hedge fund clients. So that's a theme we're watching closely, and something we you know, we anticipate, will continue into 2025, particularly as we see capital moving more fluidly between markets globally.
Vito Sperduto
And in the equity markets are investors showing a preference for certain types of offerings?
Nitin Babbar
Investors are open for all types of transactions. We're seeing robust demand for blocks, convertibles, secondary, primary, in whichever format it might be, IPOs, of course, and follow-ons. In an environment where interest rates are perhaps a little bit higher than they have been historically, the demand for yield and the convertible market is an obvious place where there should be strength, where issuers can bring down their cost of debt financing and overall cost of capital, and investors get an opportunity to purchase something that's got a yield that is interesting and upside potential. So the convertible market we expect to be, and it has been quite robust, and the demand for that product, we think, is continues to grow, and we're seeing more and more long only investors get back into that marketplace. We've touched on the block market already, but for follow-ons in the appropriate use of proceeds, investors, once again, are very interested. So unlike perhaps the debt markets, where there's a gradient of interest across different quality of companies, we've seen everything from those who need to fix your balance sheet in the form of a Boeing transaction to those who want to grow their business have a pristine balance sheet but are looking for the right cap structure on a go forward basis, with equities being part of that.
Vito Sperduto
Well, clearly investors are deploying capital, and hopefully the listeners are hearing that because I think the investor community is prioritizing quality and structure, and the key for our issuer clients is to align where demand is strongest. And I think that's an appropriate transition to think about one of RBC strengths, which is our ability to take a holistic approach to capital solutions, bringing together debt, equity and advisory teams and really putting the client at the center and thinking about, what are the possible alternatives for them, so that we can structure the best solution possible, given today's market environment, and this has been critical in helping clients navigate complexity and optimize their capital structure. So as we kind of come to the conclusion here, how does this integrated approach shape our strategy, and where are we seeing the most demand for cross product solutions? Rob, let's start with you. I mean, in the debt space, you know, how are we helping clients think holistically about their capital structure?
Robert McCormack
Yeah, it's a great point Vito, and we've talked about this before on this podcast series, in terms of the streamlining of our departments within RBC Capital Markets to provide an approach that allows us to be seamless with our advice, product and market agnostic when it comes to looking for capital solutions for our clients. And when you think about the fact that the U.S. is described as our second home market, clearly, we're dominant in Canada, from a DCM perspective, in the US, we're eighth at the moment on the league tables for our financial year to date. In the UK, in the sterling market, we're fourth. We're up 11 spots on the Euro league table, and we're number two in the Kangaroo League table in Australia. So our ability to provide a seamless, holistic, global advice really stems from the depth and breadth of our platform across all of those markets. We've got deep experience in all of those markets. And I think bringing together all of our capital raising businesses into this GIB capital markets vertical has really helped with that. I will just give a quick plug to a product that we have, we have had in the market for some time, but we've recently augmented called CapApp. It's a fantastic product that was developed internally within RBC by some of our bankers, and effectively provides an overview of the issuance across the U.S. dollar market now the Euro market and the Sterling markets on a day to day basis, as well as secondary trading levels on all of those bonds, and now also the current trading levels of U.S. Treasuries across the curve. It's a really easy-to-use product, and I encourage people to download it and give it a try.
Nitin Babbar
Vito, maybe I'll jump in on this as well. We not only think about integration across the capital structure to give the right advice on a holistic basis to our clients. We think on a global basis, and we have a truly integrated global effort, where there's conversations on a continuous basis, there's learnings from different geographies and transactions, and there is a mindset of creativity that brings the best of all the geographies to the client. An example of this is we just recently did Australia's second largest of all time follow-on offering for Goodman group, which was a massive transaction $4 billion. The transaction was a perfect example of a global theme, the theme that's happening everywhere, and that is in the datacenter business. It has a focus of investors in the APAC region, but significant investors in Europe and also in the U.S. So here we take a theme that transcends geographies where there is a very strong understanding in the U.S. market, in Europe and elsewhere, and we bring a transaction that resonates with all of these investors and all of these geographies.
Vito Sperduto
Hey, John Cokinos, maybe if you close up on the topic, I mean, I know our sponsor clients are particularly expert at working with multi product solutions across leveraged finance, private credit, structured equity and the like. And, you know, maybe talk a little bit about that.
John Cokinos
Yeah. You know, we have seen our more sophisticated private equity clients try to marry the various disciplines to get to the right outcome, whether it's a hybrid deal that has private credit and the institutional markets embedded in it. You know, a few years ago, we did an LBO for Copeland, which Blackstone bought from Emerson, and the markets were in a different state than they are now. And we married a few concepts. We did a traditional pro rata bank deal that we, along with a few other banks, provided, and then we also went out and helped arrange a private credit solution. But ultimately, between the time we underwrote it and went to market, we were able to replace that with a broadly syndicated deal. So our clients are always thinking about, what's the best way to optimize your capital structure? I mean, also keep their flexibility going forward as they get from when they sign up until when they ultimately need to close that and they're trying to make sure they have the best capital structure to drive their returns and make sure they get to the right outcome.
Vito Sperduto
That's great. I mean, look, I think, you know, as highlighted by all three of the gentlemen on the call today. And as we think about things, we put the client at the center, and they're all thinking broadly. They're not just thinking about their own individual product suites, which is key in terms of a successful outcome for our clients. So as we wrap up, gentlemen, any final thoughts for our audience, as we look ahead at 2025?
John Cokinos
Yeah, I would say two things. One, our firm just think globally, whether it's DCM, ECM or Leveraged Finance, and right now, we're working on more projects than I've ever seen since I've been here where we are marrying all three of our product disciplines and cooperating in ways to deliver solutions for our clients in optimized capital structures. I do think we expect activity levels and leveraged finance to pick up this year as we adjust to the new era we are in under the Trump administration, you know, we do have a soft landing hopefully on the economy. We have rates that have come down, and we had very cooperative markets, so we do expect that, plus the pent up capital on the private equity side that needs to get put to work, to lead to a pretty successful 2025.
Robert McCormack
I think in 2025 we'll continue to see elevated issuance volumes right across the investment grade space and across jurisdictions, it's already playing out to be a year that may indeed top 2024’s issuance levels. I think the final thing I'd say is the firm's coming off a record Q1 performance, and we're seeing our presence in the various markets stronger than ever, and clients looking to us for advice and expertise and the caliber of the people on the platform, and the breadth and depth of the teams we have across the jurisdictions, is really helping us to be there for clients and provide expert, seamless global advice as we look, to a really busy 2025.
Nitin Babbar
Vito, as I said before, the demand profile of investors is very constructive. And so as we think through 2025, we have to get through some of this near term volatility and economic uncertainty, which isn't causing markets to go into a tailspin, but rather simply pause to better understand where we're going economically from a global and a U.S. basis as well. So our expectation is that we're going to have volumes up 10 to 20% over the course of the year, it's probably going to be back end loaded, just given how the market has looked for the early part of 2025 as we're taping this. But we see all the components of success in ECM markets. We see a stable rate environment. What used to be one that may have been inching upwards, doesn't look like it anymore, so that's very supportive of equity convertible products. And again, we're seeing good returns for the most part, to investors in the market. Been bit of a tougher start, but I think people continue to be constructive that there is a way forward for a positive outcome in 2025; but once again, there's no differentiated products around this is going to be what makes sense. We think that M&A is going to be a key part of the growth in ECM markets. And we also think that the block markets and the convertible markets will show growth as well. So the core advice in a market that looks like the market we're in right now is ‘Be ready.’ It's like the Boy Scouts, you know, always be ready. And what we want our clients to do is to not be concerned about the volatility that we're seeing, but rather to pursue their strategic direction. Be prepared, and when the window is there, these windows aren't just simply going to be days. They may be longer. When the windows are there, get to market, go constructively. Be thoughtful with great execution, and we know that investors will support them.
Vito Sperduto
I think we've covered a lot today, from the impact of macro shifts to the evolution of financing strategies, but what's clear is that while markets remain complex, there's a significant opportunity for those who are prepared. And so it takes some work, but I think we've been guiding our clients consistently, whether it's in this environment or otherwise, to be prepared to access the windows when they open up. And so great advice as always. So as 2025 unfolds, we'll continue to track these trends and sharing insights on how issuers and investors can navigate the landscape. John, Rob, Nitin thank you for sharing your expertise, and look forward to talking to you again.
Robert McCormack
Thanks, Vito.
Nitin Babbar
Thank you, Vito, great as always to be here.
John Cokinos
Thanks Vito.
Vito Sperduto
Gentlemen, thanks again for your insights today. And thanks to all of you for listening to Strategic Alternatives, the RBC Capital Markets podcast. This episode was recorded on March 3, 2025. Listen and subscribe to Strategic Alternatives on Apple podcasts Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review and share the podcast with others. Thank you.