Joseph Coletti
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I think that's a real normal brain response to feeling completely out of control and hopeless. I feel like hopelessness is sort of best friends with suicidality. So that's a real red flag.
Joseph Coletti
Hello, and welcome to Pathfinders the podcast series from RBC Capital Markets that explores the fast moving world of biopharma and healthcare. I'm your host Joe Coletti.
The COVID-19 pandemic drove the scale and severity of mental health challenges among young people to new heights as they faced isolation, family stress and extended school closures. Today's youth face unprecedented mental health challenges that add a new level of complexity to the typical adversities of childhood and adolescence.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 2021, more than 42% of high school students reported feeling persistently sad or hopeless. That's a 40% increase from 2009. In addition, nearly a third of students said they experienced poor mental health and one in five students have seriously considered attempting suicide. Given the staggering statistics on youth mental health, there's an urgent need to raise awareness and create solutions for this growing problem. At our annual Global Healthcare Conference, we welcome soccer stars Briana Scurry and Dr. Sara Hess, who joined Andrew Callaway, our global head of healthcare investment banking to discuss these important issues in a special mental health focused fireside event. In 1999, Briana and Sara were part of the US Women's National Soccer Team that captivated the world by winning the FIFA World Cup. Both women later suffered injuries on the field that forced them to abandon their careers as professional athletes and left them facing mental health crises as a result. Since then, both Briana and Sara have helped to break down the stigma around mental health in sport and gone on to dedicate their time to support others with mental health challenges. Briana works as a motivational speaker and advocate and Dr. Hess is a licensed psychologist working with young people. Both speakers emphasize the importance of promoting awareness, particularly when it comes to spotting signs of mental health challenges, as well as the need to encourage those who are struggling to reach out for support. In this episode, they share their personal insights on mental health and discuss some potential solutions to what they describe as a mental health crisis in America. Now, let's dive into the conversation.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
So let's start with your soccer journeys. You guys obviously were incredible high school and college players. Talk to us a little bit about growing up as soccer prodigies.
Briana Scurry
So I was born in the Midwest in Minnesota. And then when I was about five years old, my mom and dad moved away from the city into the suburbs. And it was because of that move that soccer was exposed to me at the University of Massachusetts, I had a great college season, playing against UConn at times, winning some and losing some. And then, in an NTAA, Final Four, I played against UNC. And Anson was able to see me play Anson, the head coach of the national team, in person. And then shortly after that, I was invited to the national team. So I came into my first camp in November ‘93. And from there, I was number five out of five. And then by March of ‘94, I went from five to number one, and was the starting keeper for the team from ‘94, ‘96, where we won the Olympic gold, and then the World Cup three years later. And that was just a phenomenal event. Obviously, the world was watching, especially in the United States. And we just really became, you know, America's Sweethearts, if you if you will. And as that team of players, including Sara, we were just, you know, living our dream trying to win and the world fell in love with, with us with women's soccer and that's when it really started to explode. And then, from then, I played on the team for about 14 years, Olympic Games and other World Cups. I played three Olympics and four World Cups then from 2009 to 2010. And in 2010 in April, my career was ended by a head injury that I suffered really in a club game, came out for a low, a low shot, and never saw her come in and she hit me in the side of my head with her knee directly in that when my life changed forever, unfortunately, had all the typical symptoms of head injury sensitivities to light sound movement, I had issues with sleeping, I couldn't retain information, I couldn't learn new information, I couldn't remember where anything was. I struggled with a lot of different, you know, balancing and had pain behind my ear. And then the emotional piece, which is what I talked about most extensively, is the part that people don't know about. And I struggled with depression, I also struggled with anxiety. I just, I essentially lost my way for about three years. And, you know, was suicidal, in 2013, unfortunately. But then I just thrown a lifeline and got the treatment I needed finally, after a year of therapy and experimental surgery on my occipital nerves came out of that became an advocate for concussion. Concussion Awareness, testified before Congress, regarding it, speaking to different kinds of medical groups, soccer clubs, corporations, and all of that, and basically resurrected my career. And then now today, I mean, I just, I've really had a great recovery, I go all around the country talking about mental health. It's, it's come so far, thank goodness. But there's still more to do. It's one of the passions of my life, I played soccer was saved for a long time. And I think, as a group, all the women that played on the national team made a huge impact on the pitch. But that's not measured by our impact off of it. And I continue to do that, in this, in this area, with mental health with having resilience, overcoming obstacles, and all of that. And I think there's a lot to be discussed with regards to how far we've come in, in the industry, but also, how much more needs to be done. With regards to women and head injuries in particular.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
Sara, tell us a little bit about your childhood and growing up playing soccer.
Dr. Sara Hess
So I'm from Long Island, Huntington to be specific, I started playing soccer, you know, when I was like six or seven, because my older sister did, and then I picked up a few other sports along the way, soccer always was sort of the one I wanted to do and pay attention, if your kids do this, I want to be at practice first and then leave last. I went to University of Connecticut, I took our team to the Final Four twice, playing defense for three years and attack for one year. And then toward the end of my or after my freshman year Tony DiCicco who was the coach of the national team reached out to my coach and invited me to my first camp. From that point on it was in my head, like okay, I think I can do this thing. Like I really want to try to do this. So I worked out much harder, I watched lots of game tape, I got back there, junior year, went to a camp and then was able to join the national team that year and for the next few years, which was awesome, because I only played for the national team like four to five years. And I got to be in the ‘99 World Cup, which was like arguably the coolest thing ever. And then the Olympics in 2000. We started the professional league after that, and I came back and played for New York, it was called the New York Power, which was awesome, because we, we just went to practice and then basically hung out in New York City for the rest of the day. Which is like the best life in your early 20s. I tore my ACL, which was fine, it's very common, and it's very common to recover from, but I ended up getting an infection, a systemic leg infection, which took me a year and a few more surgeries to recover from so similar and I'm hearing Briana’s story and it breaks my heart because I know my own pain with that loss of losing an identity, which was me as a professional athlete, and having to restart and hearing this from her really, you know, it hurts my heart because I know that feeling. And I know she knows that feeling. And I think we're here because we know everybody on some level has that feeling, right? That on some way, we've all lost an identity, we've all had to pivot, we’ve all had to figure it out and or we've watched our kids lose something and have to become something new. And I think we want to be here so that we can normalize that. And also just say, yeah, it hurts so bad. It hurts so bad, but there's ways to do it. You know, there's ways to get through it. And similar to Bri I was also because of that transition developed a pretty bad eating disorder and depression, also sort of ran out of my own personal motivation. And at that point, much like Bri, my support system stepped in, you know, and that was my family and my friends and they were the ones who kind of guided me back onto a track. I went to get my degree my master's in Psych and then realized I wanted to be able to work one on one with kids. And to do that you have to get your doctorate. So I went and got my doctorate. And now I work in Westchester with a, you know, I have a private practice, for better or for worse, I have a lot of athletes in the practice in terms of being an athlete, or even a person who performs at a high level across any capacity. This part above our neck has to actually be included in the process.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
So let's go back to ’99 and talk a little bit about the team. What was that special sauce that made the team so good?
Briana Scurry
Well, I think it was the players before. So this team has won either in Olympics or World Cup every cycle since 1991. We have won four Olympic games, four gold medals in the Olympics, and four World Cup championships. And so I think what it is it's a, it's an understanding within the players that's passed down by other players going there, and essentially learning the ropes and understanding what leadership looks like understanding how we were probably more competitive on the practice pitch in training than we ever needed to be in a game, you know, we trained high competition, high competitiveness, every session, so that the game was actually easier, before our first league in 2001. So you have the 1995, World Cup, ‘96 Olympics and ‘99 World Cup, we did residencies, for all three of those events. We were comrades, essentially, if you will, for lack of a better word, and dedicated to each other as, not only as soccer players, but as human beings, which, if you contribute to the ability of someone to feel like they are cared about, like they matter. I think that's the that's the secret sauce. And I think that's the thing about this team that continues is that everyone matters, and everyone is relevant.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
So you made mention of your injury? I'm sure it was a very traumatic time in your life. What was the impact like on your mental health back then?
Dr. Sara Hess
Well, it was a, it was a really interesting progression, because it wasn't like a one and done and it was sort of my, I noticed that just in this might be common, but my mental health was taking a hit and getting less resilient each time, which I think is something that happens. It was just the, the I think that combination of losing the thing which became very unimportant. And Bri, you mentioned this too, but there's but my, my mental health, I think I was in so much physical pain, I didn't really care about soccer anymore, was already so beyond the point that I was just like, well, I think I'm tapping out, you know, like, this is all really hard and it's painful every day. And I don't really know what to do with this. And when I finally recovered, as we've discussed, I didn't have anything left. You know, there's only so much you can do on your own. And I think it really took my family stepping in and trying to find me the right supports. Now that was a bit of a disaster, because not all psychiatrists are fantastic psychiatrists, but it took some bumps and it took people being resilient on my behalf and took my friends really stepping up. So I think, you know, I did what a lot of us do, and I found coping mechanisms I stopped eating, you know, I started getting real anxious about weird things. I think that's a real normal brain response to feeling completely out of control and hopeless. I feel like hopelessness is sort of best friends with suicidality. So that's a real red flag. So I'm just really thankful that I had all that support, because I didn't have it in myself.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
So it's awesome. You pick yourself up? You decide, I'm gonna go help kids. Why did you decide to do that?
Dr. Sara Hess
Because I think like how Bri says, like, no, we didn't feel helped, you know, and I want to be someone who gets in there before it gets really bad and just say it's normal. How do you feel you feel like crap, that makes so much sense? Let's look at it. Let's figure it out. Let's figure something out. And I think so when I went back, I got my practice. So I started my practice in Connecticut, now I'm in Westchester. But the first thing I did was go do some in services at like the PT places, because I really feel like athletes and humans who are in pain and or recovering from a sports injury and or recovering from a concussion or whatever. It's really confusing to me why we don't pair that in the mental health component. So I went and talked to them and just said, hey, like, here's some red flags, like, let's get these kids help. If they're coming in with their head down. They're not talking a lot. They look a little thinner, they're not motivated, and they're hopeless, like, we got to pull the alarm. And so my practice is awesome. It's just not enough. You know? So I think coming out and talking in these larger groups, and I often go into schools and talk but I just feel like this conversation needs to be fostered and facilitated.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
So let's let's go back to 2010. Sadly, you mentioned you got a knee in your right temple and you had a traumatic brain injury, the next three years were terrible. Talk to us about those three years.
Briana Scurry
Having a head injury affects everything else in your life. And that concussion that I had was unlike any concussion I'd ever had before. So one of the things I was confused by was, the symptoms would come and go like water crashing on the shore, that's the crux of the issue is you look fine, because there's no bandage on your knee, there's no brace on your ankle, there's no surgery scheduled for head injury back then there was no protocol other than sit in the dark room and make sure you get woken up every three hours to check on you. And now we've realized and, and research has shown that that's actually bad to do back then, you know, dealing with head injuries was a black box. And so for me, it was difficult to find the right care. And then when I finally did find the right care, unfortunately, my situation became a worker's comp situation. And the insurance company fought me tooth and nail about it. And I tried to say to them, look, I'm not trying to milk this, I am hurting, I'm not myself, I don't want to be your average, you know, ability, I said, I want to go back to me, I want to go back to that woman who stood in a goal with 90,000 fans, and 107 degrees on the field and could focus on that soccer ball with all of that going on. That's the standard I want to try to get back to. So I need help. I don't know what kind of help I need, I need to find a doctor that can help me and for the life of me, part of the reason why it was three years, instead of maybe one and a half or two years is because of the battle with the insurance company, I had to keep going to court. And so all of these different complications, just like Sara was saying when you have things that happen in your life, they just wear you down mentally. And over time, I just felt smaller and smaller and just kept withdrawing into myself. So instinctively, I knew that there was something really wrong for that time that I wasn't going to push past it. But I also knew that there was somebody that has to be a doctor out there somewhere that can help me and tell me what's wrong. I was struggling financially, mentally, emotionally, physically, I mean, in every way possible. The compounding of the situations going sideways and the waves crashing on me like a boat, in a boat it, it just dragged me down. It was like something was dragging me down. And at one point for several months, I contemplated suicide. And when you get to a point where you think about the how, you know, you're in trouble. Shortly after that is when the cavalry came, and the calvary was essentially my wife Chryssa. And she basically threatened the insurance company and said, look, you do right by her, you know, this injury was caused by a work, in a work situation, you need to help her and get her the doctor she needs. Two days later about face, I got the situation handled, I got the surgery that was experimental that I needed. And I got a year it took a year of occupational therapy, physical therapy, cognitive exercises, vestibular, you know, recovery, I mean, all these things to get back to me. And I consider myself one of the lucky ones. But the reason I talk about it, and it wasn't until three years ago that I talked about the suicide piece, because it was too close to me still, I want to try to take the stigma off of it. And that's part of the reason why I choose to tell and talk about it now. And it's heavy. It's a heavy burden. And so I think, you know, I'm trying to help those people trying to help caregivers understand, like, say we're saying when somebody comes in, and they're different, you know, say something, listen, do something, you know, don't be afraid to help. Before it's too late.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
So when we talked a couple of weeks ago, you mentioned the lack of research, yes, it was being done across certain parts of the population. Can you elaborate on that and what you think we perhaps should be thinking about and doing differently? Certainly, got a lot of healthcare people in the room who are thinking about clinical research.
Briana Scurry
Absolutely. So back then, in 2010, up till I'd say 2015. Whenever you thought about concussion or brain injury, you’re always think about NFL football players, you know, big strong men, very powerful men whose identities were lost after they stopped playing like Sara mentioned, but also whose, whose identities and brains were damaged from playing. And so when you think of concussion, you think of that. And so what happened was all this research money and with the NFL and different sports like NHL, put all this money in research into concussion for those people, for men, you know athletes, well, what was left out were women, and youth. So there was not a whole lot of research at that time going on in those spaces and women in the in the workplace, women in relationships with, with abuse, young kids playing sports and having concussions, I mean, there's not a lot of research done in those two areas. So that's vitally important. I'm actually, you know, walking my talk I, I participate in research studies, I'm in a study for my brain, I'm also in a couple of different studies as well, just to understand and help people coming forward about understanding how women are different than men with returns of recovery and the depth of injury. And the time it takes to recover about how head injury affects young people. I'm lucky that I was 38. And as opposed to 18, because having a head injury can, can change your entire life. I mean, kids who study you know, they have their social people, they have their, their social lives, they have their classwork and their studies, and they're doing all these different things. And when you have a brain injury, you have to understand and know what's going on. And a lot of parents don't. And I think research with, with youth and women would really help a lot of people in those regards.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
We obviously are taking, there's a lot more awareness of it nowadays, I think parents are absolutely focused on it is an issue. Do you think we're doing enough to protect young people today?
Dr. Sara Hess
Whether it's concussion, whether it's a knee injury, whether it's whatever injury, are we doing the right thing by the kids? And in terms of the mental health piece where I come in, it's not just kids with anxiety and depression and suicidality. It's the day to day difficulties of being out there. And being a perfectionistic kid who's looking up at a parent who got the thing and did the stuff and having that expectation. I mean, I'm sort of more looking at the acute piece of like, are we listening to these kids? Are they feeling heard? And we don't need to be baby them. But, you know, are they feeling hurt? Are we paying attention if something hurts, and by the way, if they say something hurts, but we know there's no injury, there's an injury, you just don't see it. And it's probably in their brain, right? I don't mean concussion necessarily. I just mean, they're avoidant for a reason, you know, they're coming up with stuff for a reason. As a parent of three kids in sports, I think the most important thing I can do for them is, for the most part, just try to listen to what they're saying and how they're feeling.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
How are you using your platform today to really draw people in and make people aware of what's going on with, with mental illness?
Briana Scurry
So I always like to say that, you know, concussion and head injury, mental illness, mental health chose me. So by going through the situation I went through for those three years, I was determined to make it mean something. And I was also determined to share my story so that people could understand that the difficulty I went through as a Olympic gold medalist and a World Cup champion, so what I love to do is I go all over the country, talk to corporations, talk to organizations, I do a lot of work with Fortune 500 companies, I will tell them my story about my journey, but I'll focus on the healthcare piece that I experienced, that I went through and what I think needs to be done. And, you know, for me, it's part of how I'm continuing to make an impact in a positive way. That's not on the pitch anymore. But I feel like I actually have the potential to have a bigger impact off the pitch than I did on it. I feel strongly about participating and bringing awareness and vocality two areas where I have a personal relationship with. And you know, a partnership is very powerful. I mean, it only takes a few people going in the same direction to change the world. And I feel like I'm doing that right now. And my work that I do, my speaking, for me is just like when I was playing, that's my outlet. That's how I contribute. That's how I inspire in a positive way. And I'm doing this not just for myself and for organizations, but for, for all the young people that come behind me just making it better for them. So when they walk this in a similar path, it's, it's better.
Dr. Sara Hess
What I hear in my office is people want to be helpful, like they want to feel needed. They want to feel like they can make a difference in someone else's life, especially right now. I mean, as she said this, at least the suicide ideation has skyrocketed in my office. People used to come into my office five years ago, I never brought out that form that god awful form, when I have to do a suicide assessment on kids and I'm doing threat assessments, so common, you have no idea and my cohort of colleagues, we talk about it all the time, the severity is so much higher, the reporting is so much higher, the feelings are so much more intense. We as therapists, psychologists, clinicians, social workers are feeling incredibly overwhelmed. We feel a huge responsibility for these patients. And for any of you who have psychiatry, friends, they are incredibly overwhelmed. So we have to start getting ahead of this and being more proactive because, you know, it's real dicey out there. And I really hope that we can make some pointed steps to stay and get in front of it, you know, we got some big systemic work to do. But I think we're, this talk is indicative of the fact that we're headed in the right direction. The fact that people like Bri are now doing this for a living, that's indicative of the fact that we're doing the right thing. And you had an incredible impact on the field, Bri, but there's no doubt this is more important than that. So I'm so thankful for you that you're doing this.
Andrew 'Cal' Callaway
Briana, Sara, thank you so much for the time really appreciate you coming.
Joseph Coletti
Thank you for joining us today on this episode of Pathfinders in Biopharma to discuss the important issue of mental health, an alarming number of serious mental health challenges go undiagnosed. And for many youth, the barriers to asking for help and accessing treatment can be significant. This is one of the many reasons the RBC Foundation USA is investing in initiatives that are raising awareness about youth mental health, and providing equitable access to critical support. To learn more about the RBC Foundation's work to support youth mental health, contact us directly or visit our citizenship hub on RBCCM.com and click on RBC Foundation USA. This episode was originally recorded on May 16, 2023. If you're enjoying Pathfinders in Biopharma don't miss an episode, subscribe to us on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. See you all next time.
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